Metal Gear Solid 5

[Crazee 204]

It first came out on PSP, but is compatible with Vita. They then made a HD version for PS3 which comes as part of the HD collection.

They did?

*buys*

[DuPz0r 5361]

So GZ is separate to TPP. I wonder if they'll do what Sony did with Gran Turismo and give you a short prologue, almost like a demo of the game for a small price, and then TPP comes out a couple of months later. Or if they'll do it so you pay for both at he same time, get the first part and then have to wait for the next...

http://www.joystiq.c...akeout-hayters/

This is a long read, but it's a good theory about the game, that i found on a MGS forum. Pretty solid theory imo.

I think I just had an epiphany watching the MGS5 trailer and gameplay footage. The guy with the bandages all around his head helping Big Boss isn't really there, but is in fact part of BB's mind. Bear with me while I explain the theory.

The main theme in MGS5 will be how war effects people, the emotional and psychological toll it takes. The two ways this will be explored is through the toll it takes upon Big Boss, and its effects on children (Chico, the Snake clones, other child soldiers). This MGS will easily be the darkest in the series to date. Think of the back stories behind the Beauty and the Beast characters, all gruesome stories of intense childhood trauma. I think its actually an understatement to say they just had PTSD, as is listed in the Metal Gear wiki. I'm not sure what mental pathology they would be diagnosed with, but I'll just refer to it here as a full psychotic break. I mean, they were bat-shit-insane.

Same story with Raiden. He was a childhood soldier, suffered immense trauma, and is pretty much mad crazy because of it. He has PTSD, constant nightmares, and dissociative identity disorder in the form of

But I hear you asking, “So what? Big Boss wasn't a child soldier.”

No, but he has had a damn hard and fucked up life, and what will happen in MGS5 (Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain are both MGS5 if that hasn't been established on this forum) will change him, as it has to in order to transition him more in to the bad buy.

What is depicted in thetrailer from 1:05 to 2:00 is Mother Base being completely destroyed, and Big Boss and co fleeing. The main memory Big Boss has before he is locked up inside his mind for nine years in a coma state, is the memory of all his comrades/brothers in arms violently dying. Think about that. Think about having vivid nightmares about the people you care about being killed, some of them dying in your arms, for nine consecutive fucking years. It would be hell.

So Big Boss sees all his comrades killed in the destruction of mother base in the opening long ass cut scene. You go on a sort of prologue mission kinda like how the Virtuous mission was just a prologue in MGS3 (yes we all know Kojima is that predictable), and whatever happens in in this prologue mission leaves Big Boss in a coma state with nothing but terrible memories to constantly be re-enacted in the form of nightmares. Memories from previous games as well, not just from the destruction of Mother Base. You could say its like he is re-experiencing the unconscious 'battle' with the sorrow from MGS3, but much worse, and it goes on for the duration of his coma.

This game will depict the transition of Big Boss from a good guy (or at least morally gray guy you can emphasize with), to a villain. We are at that point in the series.

But... back to analyzing the trailers. Lets re-watch the original Phantom Pain trailer, the older one from December.

Big Boss wakes up from his coma in some kind of hospital, and it is a very rude awakening.

The captions are important:

Am I in a dream? Is this real? Have I gone to hell?

The answers to these three questions is a qualified: “yes and no”.

Yes and no because he is experiencing psychotic hallucinations reminiscent of the nightmares he suffered while in a coma. Oh sure, the building is being assaulted and everything, I'm not saying there are no fires and explosions going on. What I am saying is his mind is making it ten times worse in the form of giant flaming whales, flaming unicorns, and flaming figures from his past. Ever light up some fireworks or something around a veteran with severe PTSD? They might just snap on you, because it takes them back to the battlefield as their mind distorts what is really happening. It is like the nightmares he had while in a coma, it is not all real, and it is quite hellish.

The captions and obvious hallucinations all imbibe this, and the pulsating cerebral music, as well as the sense of confusion all throughout the trailer, reinforces it.

But wait a minute you say, where does the Psycho Mantis character fit in to all this? Well it may be that he is simply 'helping along' the hallucinations. He is 'pulling the nightmares out of him' so to speak. Thats how he fits in to it. BB has PTSD and dissociative identify disorder throughout the game, its just that the hallucinations really ramp up to ten whenever Psycho Mantis is near.

As for the guy with the bandaged face voiced by Kieffer Sutherland, he is not real. He is a psychotic hallucination/creation of Big Boss, an aspect of his fragmented psyche born in the hellish nightmares he has had throughout his coma.

But I hear your skepticism. Isn't that a bit of a leap you say? Yes well, it kinda is, but I think it fits very well.

Once referred to as 'multiple personality disorder' by psychologists, dissociative identify disorder is coupled with post-traumatic stress disorder in some individuals. One reason I think the bandaged man is a fragment of his mind is that this game play footage was just so strange, the situation with Big Boss and “Ishmael” as he called himself just didn't feel right. BB was just pathetically crawling along the floor while this Ishmael character ninja-walked around in front of him. At one point BB was nearly engulfed in an explosion and this Ishmael didn't think to give him a lift. Why didn't he help carry him? Because he wasn't real, he couldn't help carry him.

And he says “I've been watching after you for nine years”. What the hell? There was nothing to protect him from until this point (the assault on the lab/medical facility). He was lying in a bed in a coma with nurses attending to him. But Ishmael says he was watching after him for nine years, exactly the length of time the doctor says he has been in a coma: Ishmael is a identify dissociation born from PTSD and coma nightmares.

Ishmael also injected him with some drug that is supposed to help him get up and move better. But when BB continues to stumble Ishmael just shrugs it off as not working. That could mean nothing, or it could be that he wasn't injected with any such drug: Ishmael is a hallucination.

Ishmael's purpose as an identify dissociative hallucination is to simply help Big Boss through that situation, by giving him the kinda encouragement he needs: “on your feet soldier!” and “lets move!”. Since Kojima is capable of using google like I am, he knows that identity dissociations are often “psychological coping mechanisms". Its his way of getting through a hellish situation after already going through so much.

Another clue, what I would consider to be a major clue, is that it seems to be Kieffer Sutherland who is also doing the voice of Big Boss. Big Boss does not say much, in fact at first I didn't think he had said anything in either the trailer or 'game play' footage becuase I was expecting Hayter. But he did for sure say something in the gameplay footage, and to me it sounded like Kieffer Sutherland doing a different voice. Which makes sense. Kieffer Sutherland probably costs a hell of a lot relatively speaking to hire, I don't think big celebrities like him usually are hired to work on games, so they wouldn't hire him just to do some random new character like Ishmael. Kojima Productions has hired him to voice Big Boss, AND portray his dissociative split Ishmael. Something I'm guessing they felt David Hayter couldn't do. Fans would sniff out what was going on too easily since Hayter's voice would be too recognizable even if he were trying to disguise it. There are probably also other creative reasons why they choose not to go with Hayter this time, something about Big Boss getting older and him changing as a character.

Ishmael as dissociative hallucination also fits in with the subtitle of the game “The Phantom Pain”, in the sense that Ishmael is a “phantom” born of BB's pain. Sure I know 'phantom pain' also refers to the sensation people feel when they lose a limb, but that is too literal, and Kojima loves double meanings.

Also think of how Kojima came out on stage wearing the “Joakim Mogren” mask that is essentially just the bandaged Ishamael.

Joakim is Kojima, Ishmael is Big Boss.

There is a always a mind fuck in a numbered MGS. Nothing is ever what it seems to be. The truth behind Ishmael is this game's mind fuck, and Kojima is referring to that fact with the Joakim Mogren trolling he has been doing.. Almost making it explicit by taking off the bandaged Ishmael mask to reveal himself. Think of the “interview” Joakim Mogren did with Geoff Keighly... Joakim is not real, Ishmael is not real. Kojima was not only trolling, he was referencing a plot twist in the game.

Gameplay sectin from the conference

[Crazee 204]

Nice theory, wouldn't be surprised if he's right. Anyone else notice the MGS poster on the clipboard with Kojima on it in the gameplay vid wasn't there in the 1st PP trailer.

Oh and any clues on the melted guy who looks like he's Big Bosses boss in GZ is? surely he'd of been in the of the earlier Metal Gear games.

[XBOXEDDY 8]

I don't really know too much about the metal gear universe however that guy with the bandages calls himself Ishmael, Ishmael was the narrator and protagonist in moby dick, moby dick was a sperm whale, we see a sperm whale of fire in the vids. What this means I have no idea possibly nothing but its quite the coincidence if you ask me being as the Ishmael guy seems to be the narrator of the escape etc

Edit

He even says "call me Ishmael" this is the opening lines of moby dick

The book moby dick is all about good and bad, god and godlessness, social standing and class, ahab also lost a limb. Now from what I read is this game is about a good guy turning into a bad guy and all the decisions that go hand in hand with this transition. Again it could all be nothing but seems like too much of a coincidence. The line "call me Ishmael" the whale of fire, good and bad, the lost limb.

[CFO Charles 827]

I wanna know who the fuck that kid was?

[DuPz0r 5361]

I don't really know too much about the metal gear universe however that guy with the bandages calls himself Ishmael, Ishmael was the narrator and protagonist in moby dick, moby dick was a sperm whale, we see a sperm whale of fire in the vids. What this means I have no idea possibly nothing but its quite the coincidence if you ask me being as the Ishmael guy seems to be the narrator of the escape etc

Edit

He even says "call me Ishmael" this is the opening lines of moby dick

The book moby dick is all about good and bad, god and godlessness, social standing and class, ahab also lost a limb. Now from what I read is this game is about a good guy turning into a bad guy and all the decisions that go hand in hand with this transition. Again it could all be nothing but seems like too much of a coincidence. The line "call me Ishmael" the whale of fire, good and bad, the lost limb.

Yep. Ishmael even calls Big Boss Ahab right at the start of the gameplay video i posted above. "okay Ahab, time to go". Kojima clearly used the Moby Dick's characters as a core archetype for Big Boss's persona change. Which is great. Moby Dick was a great example of English literature. I wouldn't be surprised if the game had references to the 1956 Moby Dick film in it too.

David Hayter has something to say about MGSV:

METAL GEAR V

By

David Hayter

So,

Here’s a recap of events:

I have been up in Toronto, for the past eight months, directing my first film, (WOLVES -- 2013, TF1/COPPERHEART). On the December break, I came home to Los Angeles for the holidays. I heard then, that recording sessions for MG:V were being put together.

But I didn’t hear anything about whether I’d be needed or not.

So, I got in touch with someone involved in the production. We got together for lunch, and he told me that they "wouldn’t be needing me" on this game. No reason, or explanation was given beyond that.

And that was it.

I drove home through Laurel Canyon, bummed, and thinking about Snake.

To be clear, I love being a part of the world of Metal Gear. I admire its technological innovations, the gameplay, the political message of it all. But primarily, I love the fans of these games. Two grown men burst into tears upon meeting me at the Vancouver Fan Expo last year.

Now that... Is a rare and excellent role. You know you’re making an impact.

And I love doing it.

In 1998, I tried to do come up with a voice which epitomized the kind of worn, put-upon, genetically-engineered clone-soldier that I saw Snake to be. Over time, as the games became more stunning and visually sophisticated, I tried to transition that initial voice into the increasingly real environments in which Snake found himself. My level of success is up to you, but any perceived deficiencies were not for lack of hard work. I have dedicated a huge amount of time and effort into creating a compelling character, capable of expressing the myriad emotional, physical and psychological hurdles that Snake has to face.

Anyway, now it’s been fifteen years, nine games, and an enormous blast to undertake.

If it were my choice, I would do this role forever. To hear anyone else’s voice coming from Snake’s battered throat, makes me a little ill, to be honest.

But the truth is -- it’s not my choice. Any and all casting decisions are the sole purview of Hideo Kojima, and Konami itself. And that’s fair.

And I’ll get by. I am not lacking for employment on any level.

But I didn’t want anybody to think that I was intentionally abandoning them.

And know that I will miss this job, and this character, very much.

My best wishes to you all,

David Hayter

April 1, 2013

http://www.twitlonge.../show/n_1rjhhf9

Hmm, as much as i want to believe that, it was posted on 'April fools'. Not a great time to post a heart felt message. I still have hope lol.

[Ku Zi Mu 1194]

I miss him already

*plays MGS4*

[Crazee 204]

To be honest, i never liked him doing Big Boss's voice. Why would Solid and Big Boss have the same voice, yes obviously Solid is a clone but so was Liquid, and Liquid was meant to have the superior genes anyway. But it is a shame he won't be doing it, unless, Solid's in the PP (not GW) and they didn't want to have the same voice when they finally meet, it'd be weird.

I'm no good at figuring out timelines without all the facts, just wondering how much distant there is if you worked out.

1. When GW is meant to be.

2. PP is set 9 years after that, and so when did Metal Gear 1 first take place.

Would Solid and Liquid (and Solidus) be old enough to be adults yet with the whole speeding up the age thing? Would they of even been cloned yet? So they would be in need of Hayter to do Snake's (solid) voice? At least at some point in the game.

That's if i'm right in what already think i know.

Just so i know, is Metal Gear Wiki reliable? Only because it looks to me that by the time GW happens (after peacewalker) he's already been in a coma once and the "Les Enfants Terribles" thing has already happened.

1972, Big Boss falls into a coma, Zero extracts his DNA for the Les Enfants Terribles project.

1974, Peace Walker happened.

1975, Ground Wars happened, at the end Snake falls into another coma. <------- I think the years wrong, and i think GW takes place before Peace Walker.

1986, Big Boss wakes from second coma. Phantom Pain happens.

According to MG wiki. It doesn't add up, look for yourself ------->> MGwikiBigBoss

Anyway, now that i know, or at least think i know that the Les Enfant. . . incident has already happened, Solid Snake could definalty be in Phantom Pain, unless it's all a dream while Big Boss sleeps in his coma, and at the end of the game, he just wakes up, and he's now bad, not good. Then the Outer Heaven shit happens.

I wanna know who the fuck that kid was?

I'm assuming you mean the kid in the cage in the GW trailer? Not the floating one who's obviously a young mantis. It's Chico apparently.

[DuPz0r 5361]

https://www.change.o...-in-mgs-v#share

^ Petition for proDavid Hayter.

*Signs*

[Crazee 204]

I don't agree with him being the voice of Big Boss, especially if Solid Snake ends up being in the game and they're round the same age because of Solid's aging thing, they'd have the exact same voice.

If Solid's in the game then Hayter will be in the game. If not, then i'm sure the voice casting will still be brilliant, as always.

[DuPz0r 5361]

Yeah, IF Solid is in the game, i would prefer him voice Solid Snake, But if not, then i prefer he voices BB rather than not at all. Hayter did a good job of Old Solid, so i'm sure he could do a middle aged BB just as well. Anyway, the petition is for Snake/Big Boss, so either. I think the point is, Hayter has publicly announced he wasn't even contacted about the role (April fools or not, it's mindfucked lol)

Btw the prologue is GZ (Ground Zeros), GW (George Washington i believe?) was the Patriots neural AI system which controlled all the soldier's weapons etc in MGS4

Sorry, but i noticed you use GW a number of times above.

[Crazee 204]

Well aren't I a muppet Dup, thank you.

Some reason i was thinking it was called ground wars, plus looking around on MG wiki got GW in my head.

I think that maybe Konami might be trying to get some leeway on Hayter as he is the sole star of the MGS series to date. By getting someone else to do Big Boss's voice now, they won't have to rely on Hayter if push comes to shove in the future, and Hayter asks for too much dough. Maybe he did this time for doing the voice of Big Boss, and Kojima decided to lose him from at least this game, who knows. Obviously if that was true Hayter wouldn't come out and say that because that would completely scupper his chances with Konami in the long run, maybe his just being coy by saying what he said, to if nothing else put the heat on Konami, and show the potential for a backlash from fans if he was completely canned in the future.

Plus I'm sure there are other voice actors out there who could do the exact same voice, and fans wouldn't even be able to tell.

For me, the music in the MGS games is more important than the voice of Snake, there's always been that epicness to it, always draws the player in emotionally.

[DuPz0r 5361]

IF this is real, then this is telling me that he's David Hayter, and he'll either be voicing Ishmael, or Big Boss from what he said in that video. Also, the computer generated voice pack he's using is called 'David'...

[DozyGamer 445]

Thanks Dup, great find! It is absolutely plausible considering Kojima is mad genius who has done an absolutely brilliant job of building hype through mass confusion. I must admit though, I'm a sucker for these kinds of theatrics.

[Crazee 204]

Fake.

[DuPz0r 5361]

[Crazee 204]

Ooooooo.

It's Hayter.

Or it's some huge old Hollywood great, better than Kiefer Sutherland. Oh oh, his dad. Meh, maybe not. Clint Eastwood.

[DuPz0r 5361]

It's Tom Kenny...

David Hayter ‏@DavidBHayter 2h

Uh oh, I think I feel laryngitis coming on...

What a dirty troll, the man's toying with my brain lol. We'll find out what's going on tomorrow. This does seem like a total publicity stunt.

[DuPz0r 5361]

Konami's (MGS-V) Pre-E3 show:

http://uk.gamespot.c...re-e3-show-2013

[Ku Zi Mu 1194]

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[Jizzy 633]

Okay, maybe I will buy MGS5..

[DuPz0r 5361]

I'm pretty happy with Sutherland to be honest. If anyone should take on the role, i'm glad it's a high profile actor, with a decent voice of course.

[Crazee 204]

Ay?! Well him doing it was so obvious that I just dismissed it without a second thought, considering we already knew he was in the game, FUCK YOU KOJIMA!!! All that hype for nothing. Meh. . . Well so long Hayter.

This could make or break the series though, In one way, the fans finally get all round world class acting from the main character. But will the game feel the same without Hayter's voice, I'm not too sure at the moment, and obviously won't be until I play the game. Growing up playing the games, you get emotionally attached to certain characters, if the game and the story is good, you go through what they go through, you feel what they feel, you live the story as if it was your own, and Snake's story is one of the most Iconic of all.

Just remembered, It's Big Boss, I couldn't give a shit. This ain't MGS, It's MGBB. I'll leave that last paragraph for when Solid Snake returns, and Hayter doesn't do the voice.

[Jizzy 633]

Now we have to get him a shirt that says "I'm Jack Bauer and Big Boss, deal with it."

[DuPz0r 5361]

I think David Hayter's versionof snake has a sort of comic book feel to it. It's certainly iconic, but I think Kojima wants to steer away from that and he's focused too much on photorealism, and emotion portrayal. Obviously a high roling actor is the perfect guy for slight facial expressions and emotion portrayal. Lets hope it turns out good.

Kojima had an extended interview with GTTV after the Konami Pre-E3 clip. Watch here.