E Cigarettes

[JustAn808 130]

Now what am I to do about internet porn ...

That's unhealthy?

[beatnicpie 825]

I got herpes the last time I jerked off to internet porn. God I miss cable.

I know we inhale water vapor in the atmosphere, but I'm talking about mixing it with other stuff that we purposely put there.

I'm writing a paper on the difference between cigarette smoking and e cigarette vaping. When I'm done I'll pass on all the info of what is inside that little vapor cloud. If you would care to do some research into this as well, I'd love to compare notes, especially since we come from two different places in this debate. Best case scenario, we both learn something. Worst case, pistols at dawn. None the less, I consider this a worthwhile debate. Thanks for stating your case Brian. I encourage you to continue, even when we get snarky.

[Brian 972]

I got herpes the last time I jerked off to internet porn. God I miss cable.

I know we inhale water vapor in the atmosphere, but I'm talking about mixing it with other stuff that we purposely put there.

I'm writing a paper on the difference between cigarette smoking and e cigarette vaping. When I'm done I'll pass on all the info of what is inside that little vapor cloud. If you would care to do some research into this as well, I'd love to compare notes, especially since we come from two different places in this debate. Best case scenario, we both learn something. Worst case, pistols at dawn. None the less, I consider this a worthwhile debate. Thanks for stating your case Brian. I encourage you to continue, even when we get snarky.

I'm glad we're having this debate, despite the name calling and what not, it's a good topic. I'll try to do some research too. We should just focus on main points with citations to back us up.

[GunSmith 2452]

You in college, beatnic?

[beatnicpie 825]

Just returned after a long absence. It's good to be back, but this time I have a goal. Gonna be a history teacher, maybe even a professor, if my grades stay at the high level I'm achieving.

[GunSmith 2452]

Congrats, beatnic. Good luck to you!

[Brian 972]

From a recent interview with attorney Michael Levy, director of the FDA office of compliance.

"We felt it important that while there is litigation and we are considering options, there is no reason to be confused about FDA's position on this issue," Joshua Sharfstein, MD, FDA principal deputy commissioner, said. At the news conference, FDA analyst Benjamin Westenberger described testing 19 cartridges from the two e-cigarettes at the FDA's St. Louis facility. Among the findings:

• All but one cartridge marked as having no nicotine actually contained the addictive substance.
  
• Cartridges marked as having low, medium, or high amounts of nicotine actually had varying amounts of nicotine.
  
• One of the cartridges contained a toxic antifreeze ingredient, diethylene glycol.
  
• The devices emitted "tobacco-specific nitrosamines which are human carcinogens."
  
• The devices emitted "tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans."

Since 2008, the FDA has been trying to prevent e-cigarettes from entering the country. To date, 50 shipments have been refused, but this has not stopped distribution and sale of e-cigarettes. Canada fully banned the devices in March 2009. E-cigarette makers and distributors have argued that their devices are safer than real cigarettes, thereby mitigating the harm of smoking. Some have implied that their products help people quit smoking tobacco products. The FDA rejects both claims. Because the devices can deliver a dose of synthetic nicotine, the agency sees them as unapproved drug-delivery devices with unknown safety. And whether they can safely help people quit smoking is also unknown, while they have a clear potential to entice new smokers with their fruit and candy flavors.

From an article on Harvard's health section: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/electronic-cigarettes-help-or-hazard-201109223395

A study published this spring in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine concluded that electronic cigarettes may help smokers quit. Whether they are a safe way to quit is another question—preliminary studies from the FDA, New Zealand, and Greece raise some concerns. There are three reasons to worry about electronic cigarettes. First, the dose of nicotine delivered with each puff may vary substantially. An FDA analysis recorded nicotine doses between 26.8 and 43.2 micrograms per puff. It also detected nicotine in products labeled as nicotine free. Second, electronic cigarettes deliver an array of other chemicals, including diethylene glycol (a highly toxic substance), various nitrosamines (powerful carcinogens found in tobacco), and at least four other chemicals suspected of being harmful to humans. To be sure, the dose of these compounds is generally smaller than found in “real” cigarette smoke. But it isn’t zero. Third, by simulating the cigarette experience, electronic cigarettes might reactivate the habit in ex-smokers. They could also be a gateway into tobacco abuse for young people who are not yet hooked.

At the European Respiratory Society's meeting in Vienna in February 2012 concluded:

A study presented at the European Respiratory Society’s annual meeting in Vienna in February, 2012 demonstrated an abrupt increase in airway resistance leading to a lower level of oxygen in the bloodstream in electronic cigarette users. This could have dangerous effects on people with coronary artery disease who have obstructing plaques in their coronary arteries. In their small study, the Athens researchers studied the effects of the electronic cigarettes on 8 people who never smoked, along with 24 smokers-11 with normal lung function and 13 participants with asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). The study participants all used an electronic cigarette for 10 minutes. Researchers then conducted measurements of airway resistance and lung function. All participants had a sudden increase in airway resistance which lasted about 10 minutes. Interestingly, the increase was more noticeable in smokers than non smokers, although the effect seen in people with COPD was less immediate in nature. The researchers stated that it was unclear whether this increase in resistance had any potential long term effects. The European Respiratory Society (ERS) smoking cessation guidelines do not currently recommend the use of such electronic products. A number of physicians in the ERS note that a number of brands of e- cigarettes contain high levels of nicotine which is highly addictive, and also linked to development of lung cancer.

[cuda 939]

I taught in my last uni year, and by taught I simply mean going into classrooms and giving people random equations to solve, followed by 1 hour of browsing for cat videos and look for cute girls.

[Massacre 7646]

I did the same thing at a middle school last year.

[narcolepsy 581]

I don't think e-cigarettes are taxed the same way normal cigs are (Fourteen billion in tax revenue in 06) hence why the FDA doesn't like them because the FDA are also pretty fucking corrupt, they're in bed with the tobacco companies and the tobacco companies don't like e-cigs

[Ku Zi Mu 1194]

Now what am I to do about internet porn ...

That's unhealthy?

When it's an addiction: Very unhealthy.

[Indy 350]

From a recent interview with attorney Michael Levy, director of the FDA office of compliance.

"We felt it important that while there is litigation and we are considering options, there is no reason to be confused about FDA's position on this issue," Joshua Sharfstein, MD, FDA principal deputy commissioner, said. At the news conference, FDA analyst Benjamin Westenberger described testing 19 cartridges from the two e-cigarettes at the FDA's St. Louis facility. Among the findings:

• All but one cartridge marked as having no nicotine actually contained the addictive substance.
  
• Cartridges marked as having low, medium, or high amounts of nicotine actually had varying amounts of nicotine.
  
• One of the cartridges contained a toxic antifreeze ingredient, diethylene glycol.
  
• The devices emitted "tobacco-specific nitrosamines which are human carcinogens."
  
• The devices emitted "tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans."

Since 2008, the FDA has been trying to prevent e-cigarettes from entering the country. To date, 50 shipments have been refused, but this has not stopped distribution and sale of e-cigarettes. Canada fully banned the devices in March 2009. E-cigarette makers and distributors have argued that their devices are safer than real cigarettes, thereby mitigating the harm of smoking. Some have implied that their products help people quit smoking tobacco products. The FDA rejects both claims. Because the devices can deliver a dose of synthetic nicotine, the agency sees them as unapproved drug-delivery devices with unknown safety. And whether they can safely help people quit smoking is also unknown, while they have a clear potential to entice new smokers with their fruit and candy flavors.

The FDA research is preliminary, and there may also be conflict of interests. Furthermore, I'm very skeptical of research that doesn't come from peer-reviewed journals.

From an article on Harvard's health section: http://www.health.ha...rd-201109223395

A study published this spring in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine concluded that electronic cigarettes may help smokers quit. Whether they are a safe way to quit is another question—preliminary studies from the FDA, New Zealand, and Greece raise some concerns. There are three reasons to worry about electronic cigarettes. First, the dose of nicotine delivered with each puff may vary substantially. An FDA analysis recorded nicotine doses between 26.8 and 43.2 micrograms per puff. It also detected nicotine in products labeled as nicotine free. Second, electronic cigarettes deliver an array of other chemicals, including diethylene glycol (a highly toxic substance), various nitrosamines (powerful carcinogens found in tobacco), and at least four other chemicals suspected of being harmful to humans. To be sure, the dose of these compounds is generally smaller than found in “real” cigarette smoke. But it isn’t zero. Third, by simulating the cigarette experience, electronic cigarettes might reactivate the habit in ex-smokers. They could also be a gateway into tobacco abuse for young people who are not yet hooked.

This is the only research paper that I've actually been able to find from this paragraph. Not surprisingly, it indicates that e-cigarettes actually help smokers quit: The primary finding was that the 6-month point prevalence of smoking abstinence among the e-cigarette users in the sample was 31.0%

Read here: http://download.jour...79710007920.pdf

Furthermore, all these preliminary studies are just the same study you've highlighted above. I need stronger evidence. Regardless, even if what they say is true, e-cigarettes are still a significantly healthier option than real cigarettes, which contain (literally) hundreds of carcinogens and tobacco.

The only thing this indicates is that e-cigarettes need to be regulated more tightly. E-cigarettes that claim to have no nicotine should have NO nicotine.

A study presented at the European Respiratory Society’s annual meeting in Vienna in February, 2012 demonstrated an abrupt increase in airway resistance leading to a lower level of oxygen in the bloodstream in electronic cigarette users. This could have dangerous effects on people with coronary artery disease who have obstructing plaques in their coronary arteries. In their small study, the Athens researchers studied the effects of the electronic cigarettes on 8 people who never smoked, along with 24 smokers-11 with normal lung function and 13 participants with asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). The study participants all used an electronic cigarette for 10 minutes. Researchers then conducted measurements of airway resistance and lung function. All participants had a sudden increase in airway resistance which lasted about 10 minutes. Interestingly, the increase was more noticeable in smokers than non smokers, although the effect seen in people with COPD was less immediate in nature. The researchers stated that it was unclear whether this increase in resistance had any potential long term effects. The European Respiratory Society (ERS) smoking cessation guidelines do not currently recommend the use of such electronic products. A number of physicians in the ERS note that a number of brands of e- cigarettes contain high levels of nicotine which is highly addictive, and also linked to development of lung cancer.

Why do COPD sufferers have a lesser effect from an apparent vasoconstrictor than non-smokers? Because the sample size is far too small to draw any significant conclusions.

Everybody knows that Nicotine is linked to the development of lung cancer via reduced apoptosis. But nicotine alone is insignificant without carcinogens. Thus, this argument is only really valid in the face of real cigarettes.

I'm not really sure what to make of any of this evidence, we need longer-term studies with larger sample sizes into the effects of e-cigarettes before any sound conclusions can be drawn. Furthermore, research into the chemical composition of e-cigarettes will provide an excellent insight into the potential pitfalls of yet another nicotine based therapy.

[beatnicpie 825]

I'm intrigued by everything I've read so far, but, like Indy, I am skeptical when it comes to the FDA, but that applies to most FDA matters, not just this one. I'm gonna step out of this argument till Wednesday so that I can do some reading on this, do some writing, and other school stuff.

More than anything else, I don't want to go off half cocked.

[River 649]

It sounds like there are definite advantages to ecigs vs. real cigarettes, and it's arguable that nicotine use without additives and inhaling of smoke is less harmful. The important thing to remember is that they were designed to be a cessation aid, so the whole point isn't to keep smoking long-term, but to use them to help wean you off cigarettes completely--if that's your ultimate goal. Personally, I see ecigs, gum, sprays etc as just another way for Big Tobacco to keep one hand in your pocket. We're all chumps that somehow bought into the marketing message.

When I quit my pack-a-day habit about nine years ago, I did it cold turkey, but I don't think ecigs were available back then. They might have helped with the transition, but I wasn't tempted to try an alternative nicotine source. In the end, I believe it's easier just to adjust to life without smoking altogether, rather than use an alternative as an interim step. It just prolongs the inevitable switch you make in the long run once you quit altogether.

It takes more time to unlearn or reprogram the habits associated with smoking, than getting used to not smoking at all. Normally we crave one when: stressed; drinking at the pub with other smokers; it's been a couple of hours so it's time for a break; just had a great meal or a wicked sex marathon; listening to live music or a jam session with friends, etc etc. It feels strange at first, but it's honestly quite easy to learn to live without cigs when the triggers happen, if you're committed to quitting.

Good luck with the quitting, hope you are able to go all the way, life is better without that habit. (Says the chronic consumer...)

What do you play? show me! Says the chronic inhaler. Lol, I love to jam. I've done a couple of online collabs with ppl before. Pretty fun stuff actually.

[beatnicpie 825]

Y'all need to post a link if ya do.

[gtagrl 4317]

Oh River, I'm purely a spectator, I'm afraid; I took piano lessons as a kid and played oboe in my high school band (the teacher switched me from flute once he figured out I have a good ear), but it's been years since I played anything. Back when I worked in theatre and opera (as a stage manager, not a performer), I worked with many talented people like yourself who play music. Being surrounded by live music all day and all night is one of the things I miss about working in the biz. Every Thursday was a jam night at the carpentry shop of one of the theatres where I worked, you never knew if 10 people or 50 would show up for a cold beer and some hot tunes. The air in there some nights was blue and thick with smoke from all the cigs and weed; it was one of the spots I couldn't stay in after I quit smoking, it was overwhelming, don't know how non-smokers could stand it in there.

Shame I don't play, since River is clearly my kind of peep, in fact only yesterday I mentioned him to my man, who plays guitar, the two of you would get along great.

[beatnicpie 825]

I want some oboe metal, dammit!

[River 649]

Oh River, I'm purely a spectator, I'm afraid; I took piano lessons as a kid and played oboe in my high school band (the teacher switched me from flute once he figured out I have a good ear), but it's been years since I played anything. Back when I worked in theatre and opera (as a stage manager, not a performer), I worked with many talented people like yourself who play music. Being surrounded by live music all day and all night is one of the things I miss about working in the biz. Every Thursday was a jam night at the carpentry shop of one of the theatres where I worked, you never knew if 10 people or 50 would show up for a cold beer and some hot tunes. The air in there some nights was blue and thick with smoke from all the cigs and weed; it was one of the spots I couldn't stay in after I quit smoking, it was overwhelming, don't know how non-smokers could stand it in there.

Shame I don't play, since River is clearly my kind of peep, in fact only yesterday I mentioned him to my man, who plays guitar, the two of you would get along great.

I appreciate the kind words I do love to make music, and I go to jams and such around here and open mic nights etc sometimes. (not to mention by trade im actually a music publisher) Sometimes in clubs I get overwhelmed with smoke too! haha I don't mind the weed smoke, but I don't smoke cigs so it kills me. Does your man get into recording much? Still a possibility

My girl is out of the country right now in Peru with her mom so I have some fuck off time to play around with before I'm insanely busy next week producing some stuff for a buddy of mines band.

I want some oboe metal, dammit!

Ever listen to Paul Hanson??? Dude is a god on the bassoon.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152597980480187&set=vb.906375186&type=2&theater

[beatnicpie 825]

Yeah... But a bassoon ain't no oboe...

So I found some articles I wanted to share.

New E-cigarette Study Shows No Risk from ... - PR Newswire

NEW YORK, Oct. 4, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- An indoor air quality study conducted by CHANGE, LLC at the Center for Air Resources Engineering and Science at Clarkson University in Potsdam, NY was published this month in the peer reviewed journal Inhalation Toxicology. The study compared harmful byproducts commonly found in cigarette smoke versus the levels of those same compounds in several popular brands of vaporized e-cigarette liquid.

Because e-cigarettes vaporize liquid rather than burning tobacco, most of the harmful compounds found in smoke were not present in e-cigarette vapor. Those few compounds that were found were at such minuscule levels that toxicology analysis detected no risk (cancer or non-cancer risk) to public health from environmental e-cigarette vapor.

"This study demonstrates that the risks of secondhand vapor from electronic cigarette use are very small in comparison to those associated with secondhand tobacco smoke. While secondhand smoke must be eliminated in workplaces and public places, the current data provide no justification for eliminating electronic cigarette use in these places."- Dr. Michael Siegel of Boston University School of Public Health.

There has been a growing controversy over including e-cigarettes in smoking bans, which were originally passed due to the health risks thought to be caused by environmental tobacco smoke.

"For more than 25 years Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating indoor smoking bans. Based on the results of this study I see no reason for e-cigarettes to be included in smoking bans." - Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania.

"Most vapers believe e-cigarette vapor is not harmful to those around them, but it is reassuring to finally have scientific evidence confirming those beliefs."- Spike Babaian , President of National Vapers Club.

This is the first study to cover such a wide range of toxins, however previous studies, which have evaluated a smaller number of toxins, have shown similar results.

"The results of this study confirm the findings of my last 4 years of research. E-cigarettes pose no discernible risk to public health." - Dr. Murray Laugesen - public health medicine specialist, Health New Zealand.

National Vapers Club, a consumer-based e-cigarette organization, sponsored the study.

http://www.VapersClub.com

SOURCE National Vapers Club

From Evidence Suggests E-Cigs Safer Than Cigarettes, Researcher Claims

This is a longer one, so I'll pull out snippets.

In a new report that bucks the concerns raised by the Food and Drug Administration, a Boston University School of Public Health (BUSPH) researcher concludes that electronic cigarettes are much safer than real cigarettes and show promise in the fight against tobacco-related diseases and death.

The review, which will be published online ahead of print this month in the Journal of Public Health Policy, is the first to comprehensively examine scientific evidence about the safety and effectiveness of electronic cigarettes, also known as e-cigarettes, said Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at BUSPH. The battery-powered devices provide tobacco-less doses of nicotine in a vaporized solution.

"Few, if any, chemicals at levels detected in electronic cigarettes raise serious health concerns," the authors said. "Although the existing research does not warrant a conclusion that electronic cigarettes are safe in absolute terms and further clinical studies are needed to comprehensively assess the safety of electronic cigarettes, a preponderance of the available evidence shows them to be much safer than tobacco cigarettes and comparable in toxicity to conventional nicotine replacement products."

"The FDA and major anti-smoking groups keep saying that we don't know anything about what is in electronic cigarettes," Siegel said. "The truth is, we know a lot more about what is in electronic cigarettes than regular cigarettes."

The FDA has threatened to ban the sale of e-cigarettes and six national anti-smoking groups â the American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, American Lung Association, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, American Legacy Foundation, and Action on Smoking and Health â have also called for the removal of electronic cigarettes from the market.

"Taking these products off the market would force thousands of users to return to cigarette smoking," Siegel said. "Why would the FDA and the anti-smoking groups want to take an action that is going to seriously harm the public's health? The only ones who would be protected by a ban on e-cigarettes are the tobacco companies, as these new products represent the first real threat to their profits in decades."

Siegel, MD, has 25 years of experience in the field of tobacco control and claims no financial interest in e-cigarettes.

The report can be accessed on the Journal of Public Health Policy website.

For more information on Michael Siegel, please visit sph.bu.edu/mbsiegel.

Founded in 1976, Boston University School of Public Health offers master's and doctoral-level education in a wide variety of public health concentrations. For more information, visit sph.bu.edu.

Back to the beatnicpie. I would encourage reading all of the article. It has some really good info.

As to issues with e-cigs, I researched that a bit as well. There are some out there that are made poorly, but marketed heavily. Specifically the blu. Customer reviews revealed that poor manufacturing caused the heating element to burn some of the inner plastic parts, causing combustion, creating smoke. This one of the e-cig companies that was bought buy a major tobacco company in recent years, so in this instance, I'm less than shocked.

The heating element on my gear stay stays far away from plastic. I get a clean vapor cloud.

Still haven't found what else may be in the cloud, as the above articles say there are, bu tI'll keep looking and post my findings.

[Indy 350]

Just to review the current arguments:

E-cigarettes help smokers quit and are better at doing so than other nicotine replacement therapies.

E-cigarettes are safer for the person inhaling them than conventional cigarettes.

E-cigarette vapour contains far less toxic products than conventional cigarettes.

E-cigarette vapour does contain trace amounts of toxic product. However, this is claimed to be negligible to health.

Some E-cigarettes are made poorly and may contain more nicotine than advertised.

In my opinion, I can see how even minute amounts of toxicity released from E-cigarettes can make people uncomfortable. Therefore, whether E-cigarettes are allowed to be smoked in public places will probably remain a matter of debate for quite some time. However, I believe that E-cigarettes will have a significant benefit to public health and potentially reduce the financial burden on public-funded healthcare systems (e.g. NHS). Whether or not E-cigarettes will be recommended by healthcare professionals remains an area of uncertainty. Guidelines (e.g. NICE) will not provide any significant guidance for their use until further evidence can be attained. Despite this, I am in favour of using E-cigarettes as a replacement for conventional cigarettes, especially if one has the intention of quitting. This is further supported by the fact that it has been proven to be more efficacious than other nicotine replacement therapies. My main concern is that all available research on this area is relatively weak. However, the research that has been done does warrant for further, more rigorous research into this particularly interesting area of public health.

[GunSmith 2452]

The next person that dismisses GTA fans as a bunch of basement-dwelling, murderous freaks with no intellectual capacity shall be laughed at and promptly directed to this discussion.

[beatnicpie 825]

You're wrong, bitch! I'm gonna crawl out of my man cave, track you down, and murder you!

(If you have dismissed GTA fans as a bunch of basement-dwelling, murderous freaks, and have been directed here by Gunny, the above "threat" is playful in nature. There is no need to involve the authorities.)

To stay on topic, 33 days since my last cigarette. I can ride my bicycle faster than the devil himself, now that I can breath properly.

[beatnicpie 825]

Anyone looking into or shopping for e-juices, the site Alien Visions E-Juice has been hacked, and cc numbers used for fraudulent order. DO NOT make an order now, and if you've ordered from them before check your cc statements.

[GunSmith 2452]

To stay on topic, 33 days since my last cigarette. I can ride my bicycle faster than the devil himself, now that I can breath properly.

Congratulations. Hopefully you can nix the habit for good.

[Rayge 689]

I just get pissed having to smell that in my damn face all the time, majority of people don't like it. So yeah I did escalate things, my bad on that part. Still it's a rather gross habit, and each person has their choices, don't make others have to deal with what you like.

Also with the cars thing, a lot of countries in places like Scandinavia are a lot different. I've got my eyes set for a life in Sweden or a similar nation, due to their care for the environment and people's general well-being.

Smoking is not good for you, and second-hand smoke is a real thing. It may not be as bad as they say, but it isn't healthy. So let people enjoy it in their homes, and let people who dislike it enjoy the public. Then everyone's happy.

Bro if you go to Sweden you will encounter like 500 smokers as soon as you step out of the terminal, and everywhere from there on (especially in Stockholm, Gothenburg and other big cities)